Child pages
  • T&L Design Lenses, 29 November 2010
Skip to end of metadata
Go to start of metadata


  • Lynn Ward, Indiana
  • Debbie Runshe, IU/IUPUI
  • Janice Smith, Three Canoes
  • Jacques Raynauld, HEC Montréal
  • Jon Hays, UC Berkeley
  • Robin Hill, Wyoming
  • Josh Baron, Marist
  • Clay Fenlason
  • Daphne Ogle, UC Berkeley
  • Ann Jensen, TX State
  • David Goodrum, Indiana

Link to Backlog 3 page

Lynn Ward: (Chairing today's meeting, welcoming collaborative leadership contact Lynn if interested in sharing leadership) Note: Daphne Ogle will be going on maternity leave after the holiday. Back channel discussion about potential topics each week, help with that and contacting participants each week would be welcome. Not meeting next week because meeting of full T&L group is taking place as well as monthly T&L "public" call. What about meeting during the rest of this month? Might make sense to meet on December 13 and then call a hiatus for the rest of the month.

Josh Baron: Makes sense to meet on December 13 and then not again for the month. Maybe not have the monthly whole group call this month either. Instead have a prep call for those presenting at the quarterly update.

Robin Hill: Needs to know if we are meeting as a whole group next week (for T&L monthly).

Josh: Will get something out to the larger list to confirm what we will do for meetings this month.

Lynn: Sakai 3 managed project has changed its work methodology. Moving to a more agile approach. Will be doing things very differently. Still have a road map broken into quarters, but instead will be working in three-week sprints. Have choice of functionality that will be specked out from product backlog, designed, and developed. Current backlog consists of things that have not been done in previous quarters. Smaller chunks of work, better engagement with product team. Will have to figure out how it maps onto T&L lenses project. Designs that we are looking out for Open 1 and Open 2 specs are just the first chunks of design that relate to those minispecs. Will just see a few of those ideas fleshed out in wireframes.

Daphne: Have a page for Backlog 3. See URL above. It is less than what this group has reviewed in MiniSpecs, but it constitutes the steps to go where we want. Can see scope of what will be done in this three-week period. Changing log-in so that it is incorporated into the main home page for an anonymous user. Working on how dashboard will work. Will get to five, six, and seven, but won't get to eight, helping Google find stuff that is in Sakai 3. This explanation hopefully puts the designs in context.

Daphne: (Talking about Backlog 3): Not sure how much of design will make it in compared to what is implemented now. Want to have institutional branding at the top. Search may come in this iteration or not. Message of Welcome. Integrate the log-in to the main page so don't have to send people anywhere else. Page two shows a different version of log-in. If using something like CAS, will have to go to a different log-in page, but can see it is integrated with home page. Goal for next page is to be able to search globally.  As someone logged in, I probably know the area I want to navigate to. Are putting this in for future navigation. People will want to come in to find public content. Will have an idea to search by tags (go to page 5). We have this main content here. We will have each institution provide an html or css file to populate this version of the page. Easy for any administrative person to coordinate - will have a widget to assist. On the right you see filter widgets, a way to filter down or navigate to certain information. Top one is based on tags, you can see how many times a tag is used. Most viewed public sites - still some discussion about what is most active and what is most viewed. Originally meant how many times has the landing page for this site been hit. Trying to take baby steps to get to more meaningful features. Will come back to this. Page six - Shows where you end up. Specific tag of the material you searched on.

Lynn: Links to her design, have to make some changes. Will be showing public content. Will get some improvements for the presentation of metadata.

Daphne: Page seven is out for this iteration, but the idea is that it would be an overlay to see more information, borrowing from Netflix idea, after a certain amount of hovering time, you woudl get an overlay, or we might ask people to hit a link. This would work across the board in Sakai. Eight, nine, and ten - Not much. Eight is actually showing a landing page for a group, not sure what it will look like New design concepts. Not to be implemented for this iteration. When go to group page, will have log-in available. Some people will come to a public page and not have a log-in. Others do, but don't want to go through the process of logging in. Encourage those without an account to actually log-in so that they can do more. Ten - Page for a site. Not sure what it will look like yet. Questions?

Josh: Congratulations for the Q1 release, the release that just came out before Thanksgiving. 

David: This release was important because it helped surface some issues with the backend that would not have been uncovered if we had not been so intent on having a release.

Robin: We are all impressed but just don't want to slow down the momentum by saying so.

Lynn: Design team was actually doing other things in relation to this release. We will probably feel more connected to the next one.

Josh: Big step historically. Lots of blood, sweat, and tears.

David: Full circle in last chat. Wireframes based on a minispec, started seeing how thinking from community and wireframes end up in the product. Will see more of this with the milestone 2 release.

Jacques: Who is the product owner?

Daphne: My sense is that it is the leads for each team.

Clay: Actually not the case. It will be someone on the steering group. Still sorting it out. Someone who has time.

David: Steering group originally had the road map. In more agile approach, individual will be the person for the go-to response, representing the steering group. Single point of contact to work through time sensitive issues.

Josh: Basic question. Top nav bar. Home, content, groups, directory. Will the directory be a place to browse through or will it be a people directory?

Daphne: Now it is whatever the institution decides it is going to be. A common use will be school, department, a hierarchy you see now. One of the things we will want to take a closer look at. Initially had some navigation on the left hand side, where you could browse to see open content, open courses. Will have this as a focus for future iterations. What does this group think? If you want to navigate to content at the institution, what should it be based on?

Josh: Hierarchical structure, navigate through it to determine which course comes from which department. For general public, hierarchical structure may not make sense.

Lynn: No one size fits all structure will make sense. For a big university like IU, there will be many colleges, departments, etc. But a big directory is very clunky. The browsing of the directory is not very satisfactory, all displayed on one page. Directory is treated as special tags. Need a more elegant way of navigating the directory.

Daphne: Did not include it now because user will define their relationship to the directory. Content will be left up to users to assign to wherever they want. Worried that people are not going to do it. Will not be all the public content unless users assign it there. Have to make it clear to users what they are actually seeing.

Lynn: Users could also assign inappropriate content or the wrong content.

Robin: What about the tab labeled "Content"?

Daphne: Takes you to search page where you see all available content?

Lynn: If you think of Resources in Sakai 2, but imagine Resources being a giant flat pool of flies and links, that is content. Upload is files and links to  that content.

Robin: Even a label like Files or Links would be more clear.

David: These are the same items that you see when you log in. For someone coming in from outside, it may be odder.

Clay: What I was hoping would happen, I have use cases for this, would be resource libraries for particular departments or disciplines. It will start to be clusters of resources. Use cases have to do with resource libraries, seems to be valuable for public resource, overlaps with what would imagine directory would be used for.

Lynn: How does this relate to the label Content? Concerned that we would have to change the entire set-up. Link does not take you to collections of content.

Daphne: We did have this idea that there would be a different way to filter down to public information.

Clay: In my mind it was the collection, not the individual resource.

Lynn: We decided to take content search off the list. This will be something we are going to have to revisit. Whether we hide or show them, these should not be different labels whether you log in or not. Tool tips or something.

Josh: As we create a more public interface, there will be a whole different use case for different audiences.

Janice: In Sakai 2, the public view is very seldom used. Does Sakai 3 have a different vision?

Daphne: May be for people who want to check out what is happening in open education or for people who don't want to log in.  

David: Reflected in the design lenses, a radical departure from before.

Lynn: Some institutions will want to turn off the anonymous user function.

Ann: For institutions that have a really robust site or outreach. What is the difference between a version of Sakai that has all these resources and the university's marketing site. What about if I don't want to put the same document in both places. I want to have these two versions live side by side.

Jacques: Possibility of confusion between official university website and Sakai.

Robin: Can be addressed by institutions saying here is the public face of our collaborative work, including teaching and research.

Lynn: Noting what your primary version of communicating with public is. Might want to have your public website point to the Sakai for this purpose. Has been discussed that we need to somehow reconcile the potential for users to have to go to two places.

Robin: Here is the institution in action. Here is what your tax dollars are doing.

Daphne and Jacques: Big challenge to control this. Spending a lot of time on institutional web spaces. What do we have. How to administer and sync up. What about the user? Don't know where to do to for what.

David: Single space to go for info is Google. But Sakai 2 does not get crawled unless it is already linked to some other place that gets crawled. This method provides a way to get crawled. You may be a faculty member who has to go through the web master for the institution every time you want to post something about your research. This is an improvement. What Sakai needs is a crawlable pathway into the open content.

Jacques: As a faculty member, I don't want to spend time posting it twice, keeping all this information up to date everywhere.

Lynn: It will be possible to populate the profile and the directory in a synchronized way.

Clay: You will be able to run Sakai purely open or purely closed.

Lynn: We need to wrap up our comments on the first design and talk about the second design next week.

Josh: In an earlier discussion, we had a debate about whether when someone does a search and are not signed in, should they only be able to access content from the public view?

Lynn: It gets pretty sticky if you start showing them data that was not intended for a public user to see. You are violating whatever the intentions were of the person who posted that information.

Daphne: From a usability perspective, it is frustrating to show people stuff that they cannot get to without a log in (when they don't have a log-in). There will be messages reminding people that if they log in they can see more.

David: If you log in, you need to be at the place you really are, instead of having to re-navigate.

Lynn: That may not make it to the sprint, but we can try.

Daphne. It was intended, but we are glad for the reminder.

Josh: After logging in, need to highlight the content that you can now see because you have logged in.

Lynn: Sprint is focused on just beginning to see what will be available to anonymous users rather than what happens when you log in. At first, there will be little content, but after a while this distinction will be useful.

We should take time at a later point to see if this is how we want to be using our time. We have not been dealing with the lenses in a literal way. We can talk about the kind of work we want to be doing.

Next meeting takes place in two weeks, December 13, 5 PM EST.

David: Great that T&L has an early look at wireframes and has access to the Sakai OAE project leadership.

  • No labels