What do you think the future SEPP organisation should exist for?
- To own the code and provide a neutral organisation to which code can be donated.
- To ensure ongoing access to the code
- To quality assure the 'Sakai' code
- To provide infrastructure resources for development of the project
- To provide and coordinate documentation
- To provide collaboration/communication environment
- To ensure Sakai becomes and remains a product which is simple to install, easy to run, and obvious enough to learn on the fly
- ???
Comments (11)
Mar 26, 2005
Clay Fenlason says:
I'm not sure how best to put this, so I may make frequent use of the edit button...I'm not sure how best to put this, so I may make frequent use of the edit button to refine the point, but I think a fundamental task of SEPP will be to provide for "community support" (I know, I'll keep looking for a better phrase). This includes:
I think that a narrow focus on the code and its development alone is unbalanced, and ultimately under-serves a guiding motivation to engage educators more directly in the development of their pedagogical and collaborative tools. SEPP must also devote attention and resources to supporting structures and processes. It might be argued that this is implicitly subsumed under "infrastructure resources" or "ongoing access" above, but I think it's important to make it explicit.
Mar 26, 2005
Clay Fenlason says:
Actually, I have a more specific concern in mind, which I should come clean with...Actually, I have a more specific concern in mind, which I should come clean with. I've been hearing a lot from smaller schools about concerns over staffing resources and the in-house talent required to pull Sakai off. The quickstart has been a great accommodation, and I'd hope to see more of these measures to minimize the effort to get up to speed with the technologies and implement them locally. And again, I think this is important enough to deserve explicit mention in any stated goals.
I'm also mindful of a possible tension with commercial partners - one of the services they provide is to consult on these sorts of matters, and perhaps this may be an argument against putting this sort of burden on SEPP. I could respect that argument.
But I think there is a general point here about where open-source solutions have struggled to date. They are more difficult for "outsiders" to pick up, less friendly for the uninitiated end-user (the end-user in our case being the adopting institution), harder to find the requisite skills for, and harder to find sound, reliable information for. I think there's a danger of SEPP becoming a clique only for a certain sort of school (i.e. a school with a certain sort of IT department), and I don't think that will ultimately serve our interests.
Mar 28, 2005
Mark J. Norton says:
> concerns over staffing resources and the inhouse talent required to pull Sakai...> concerns over staffing resources and the in-house talent required to pull Sakai off.
I think this cuts to the heart of the matter, Clay. Should a university go with a commercial L/CMS vendor that nominally will come in, integrate the system and train people in how to use it, or should they download a free product like Sakai but be faced with the burden of integrating themselves, training their own staff, handling problems, etc?
It is a goal of Sakai to make a product which is simple to install, easy to run, and obvious enough to learn on the fly. However (as you can problably guess by now), that's not easy! The QuickStart is a move in the right direction, but almost all Sakai installations require integration to some degree. Sakai has only just started to think about generic support for integration. Sakai 2.0 will include more support, but it's gonna be a while before integration is so simple that it doesn't require a programmer.
I'm hoping that Sakai will avoid the clique-club syndrome by having a drop in solution for the main product and standards-based solutions for the typical integration problems (authetication, for example). Schools lacking IT support for better integration may well need to seek out one of the Sakai Commercial Affliates, or perhaps a consultant.
We'll see!
Mar 28, 2005
Clay Fenlason says:
That all sounds fair to me, and I'm all for the model where market pressure is a...That all sounds fair to me, and I'm all for the model where market pressure is applied to the support question independently of the product. I'd just like "a product which is simple to install, easy to run, and obvious enough to learn on the fly" to remain an explicit part of the SEPP charter in some form. I can imagine future board decisions on resource allocation that could be positively influenced by such an explicit emphasis.
Jun 06, 2005
Anonymous says:
I think adding HSQL to quickstart is also a step in the right direction. One key...I think adding HSQL to quickstart is also a step in the right direction. One key question regarding deployment is: what are the critical points at which one server recipe breaks down and another is better suited. I see the framework paper lays out server recipes based on number of users. The HSQL recipe is relegated to a developer environment. But I wonder if some benchmarks of HSQL performance could back up the notion that an installation using it could be used for a light classroom deployment. That would put a Sakai quickstart installation on par with say a Plone installation in terms of ease-of-installation.
Another step in the right direction is Sakaipedia but I think it needs to be easier to find.
Mar 26, 2005
John Norman says:
I think you are making a good point Clay, but how about if I turn it around. The...I think you are making a good point Clay, but how about if I turn it around. The bigger schools with an IT department develop innovative teaching tools and the framework and donate the code for the public good (theirs and others). This process will require the sustenance of a community as you rightly point out. But then the commercial companies step in and (without the costs or risks of a major development) are able to offer a low-cost service to the smaller schools without an IT department. This seems like an attractive future to me, especially as the low barrier to entry for commercial players should ensure a high level of competition among suppliers.
Mar 27, 2005
John Norman says:
Clay's tasks added to listClay's tasks added to list
Mar 29, 2005
Chuck Powell says:
How about (tried to "steal" every idea above and add a few more): To provide a w...How about (tried to "steal" every idea above and add a few more):
*To provide a world class Collaborative Learning Environment (a.k.a. CMS) software package to the higher education community
*To own and maintain the core Sakai code and provide appropriate mechanisms by which additional code can be donated from the community.
*To ensure the highest quality, standards based code in the Sakai core packages as well as an on-going architecture roadmap for development
*To exercise prudent and efficient management of the project's core resources (staff, money and intrellectual property)
*To provide core documentation and information about the code and the project for the community
*To foster a community of users and developers in appropriate physical (e.g. conferences and workshops) as well as virtual (e.g. collaborative tools) environments
*To serve as a focal point for the community's interaction with other projects and endeavors as well as a broker for appropriate partnerships with other commerical and non-commercial entities.
Apr 12, 2005
Craig Counterman says:
On the general question of "community", and the specifics of producing a quality...On the general question of "community", and the specifics of producing a quality open source product, what are example projects/products and communities we can learn from? What are their theoretical and actual governance models? How do they build and sustain their communities? How do they resolve conflicts?
Positive and negative examples are useful.
Apr 12, 2005
Clay Fenlason says:
I'm not sure if it's positive or negative, but I think Sakai is running counter ...I'm not sure if it's positive or negative, but I think Sakai is running counter to the governance approaches of the more popular open source projects - that being a sort of "Just-In-Time" governance. Linux is the prime exemplar. Governance structures are adopted only where and when it becomes too painful to do without. The advantage is that organic growth we're all supposed to value so much. The disadvantage is that many problems were easily foreseeable and avoidable.
But every time I try to make analogies with other open source projects (at least the ones I know, which I admit is very few in number), I butt my head against a fundamental, irreducible difference: they deal only with communities of independent, individual developers. I don't mean to say that this presents a simpler problem, but I think it is a more homogeneous one.
We, on the other hand, have to throw institutional incentives and structures into the mix at every level as well. Of course there are numerous open source projects where corporations have weighed in, but they still seem to do it largely by having their developers treated like everyone else. It isn't really a consortium model where institutional representation is front and center.
We also have to cope with a more diverse set of constituents and idiosyncratic needs. That may be the main reason that we have to apply a little more rational forethought to the governance question.
Anyway, yes, I want to hear more from other open source success stories on the governance question (though it may start to sound like I don't), and it seems silly to try and invent this for ourselves in a vacuum, but at the same time I wonder how much of these other experiences is going to be pertinent.
Jun 06, 2005
Anonymous says:
I agree about the differences of the source models. Would there be a corporate/o...I agree about the differences of the source models. Would there be a corporate/open source model that fits Sakai's requirements better? I'm thinking of MacOSX/Darwin as an example.
By the way, the anonymous posts so far are from Jose L. Hales-Garcia <jose@stat.ucla.edu>.